"Absolutely Beautiful" - or- A conversation with Siloca Sneek

Kris Collins:

my current favorite secular song is Unwell, by Matchbox 20

nontalk:

I hate you

Kris Collins:

WHAT!?

nontalk:

because I HATE matchbox 20 with a deep and unforgiving hatred

Kris Collins:

no way

nontalk:

they are one of the most annoying bands I have ever heard

Kris Collins:

fish

nontalk:

yes they ARE fish

Kris Collins:

lol

nontalk:

honestly, and I am not exaggerating, I really despise them

Kris Collins:

there's a reason they're so popular, and in this case it's because they are bigtime

nontalk:

many many people like them, to be sure, I am not one of those

Kris Collins:

do you think it's possible that you hate them precisely because they are so popular/

nontalk:

no, I am NOT in that camp at all

Kris Collins:

good

nontalk:

I actually hate people who hate music for it's being popular

Kris Collins:

maybe it's because you're UNWELL

Kris Collins:

me too

nontalk:

I hate the feeling I get when the sound of their music reaches my eardrums

Kris Collins:

LOL

nontalk:

that is why I hate them

Kris Collins:

that amazes me

nontalk:

honestly, I was just saying to jody (for probably the 100th time) how much I hate them

Kris Collins:

hey, i hate those people too - that "hate" something because it all of a sudden became popular

Kris Collins:

no way

Kris Collins:

you were?

nontalk:

yes I was

nontalk:

last week

nontalk:

here is a good way to describe those music fans/idiots....

nontalk:

Johnny: "oh I hate [band x] because they are so popular now, they sold out"

nontalk:

translation..........

nontalk:

Johnny: "I hate the fact that I no longer have some claim of superiority due to my secret knowledge of some 'underground' band. I never actually liked their music, what I like was the fact that I knew them before most of the lemmings who like them now."

Kris Collins:

exactly

nontalk:

Actually the real truth is....

nontalk:

these people LOVE it when 'their' underground bands sell out, because then they actually have the opportunity to tell everyone how they used to love them before they sold out

Kris Collins:

YES

nontalk:

they HATE (or at least don't enjoy) the actual music....that is an irrelevant aspect of the whole thing...... they LOVE feeling cool

Kris Collins:

nice, groove

Kris Collins:

btb analysis

nontalk:

and I love hating these people

Kris Collins:

i honestly can't imagine, however, someone not loving matchbox 20

Kris Collins:

but alas, we are all different

nontalk:

I can't imagine how someone could say what you just did

nontalk:

we are different. I am willing to admit that I can conceive how someone would like their music.....

nontalk:

it is like this..... I don't like Bailey's Irish Cream. for some reason I feel like I want to puke everytime I take a sip.. but my wife LOVES it

Kris Collins:

LOL

nontalk:

I don't know why I don't llike it

Kris Collins:

i suppose, i receive that

Kris Collins:

however, what i mean is

Kris Collins:

i know and believe that not all people like it...

nontalk:

yes

Kris Collins:

but since i do love it , yet don't know why, and therefore deduce that it is the music that is loveable, not me objectively loving the music...

nontalk:

aha!

Kris Collins:

it's difficult to imagine WHY someone wouldn't like it

nontalk:

here is the thing.....

Kris Collins:

ALL TRUTH MUST BE RELATIVE

Kris Collins:

;)

nontalk:

I think that aesthetics are PURELY relative

nontalk:

I don't think there is any objective beauty

Kris Collins:

wow, that's something

Kris Collins:

hmm....

Kris Collins:

very interesting

nontalk:

I really , truley believe that

Kris Collins:

how about truth... is absolute truth objectively beautiful?

Kris Collins:

or is it just true

Kris Collins:

merely true

nontalk:

it is beautiful to some.

nontalk:

not to others

Kris Collins:

so you're saying... truth IS beautiful, yet some see it as such and some simply do not

nontalk:

NOPE I don't mean that........

Kris Collins:

or did i say that?

Kris Collins:

suhoo....

nontalk:

I don't think you can say "x = beautiful" because I think that beauty is experienced at given moments in time

nontalk:

it isn't an attribute

nontalk:

now, in english I would say, my wife is beautiful

nontalk:

but what I mean by that is.... I experience beauty via her

Kris Collins:

sheesh

Kris Collins:

good stuff

Kris Collins:

i agree with that... however, shouldn't we experience beauty in all absolute truth

Kris Collins:

if it is in fact true

nontalk:

I will say this....... everyone will always experience beauty when they clearly "see" God

Kris Collins:

that's what i was getting to

nontalk:

but that doesn't mean that God = beauty

Kris Collins:

no, but he IS beautiful

nontalk:

yeah that works

nontalk:

6 of 1, half 12 of the other

Kris Collins:

you think so?

Kris Collins:

but it's not just an arbitrary assignment

Kris Collins:

he's beautiful for a reason (or many reasons), one of which is

he is truth

Kris Collins:

or

he is always true/right

Kris Collins:

so this subjective experience/emotion will necessarily follow when this truth is truely beheld

nontalk:

YES!

nontalk:

at least that is my hunch

Kris Collins:

hyeah

nontalk:

but about things that aren't absolute, I don't think we can assign "absolutely"

the attribute "beautiful"

Kris Collins:

agreed

Kris Collins:

i would tend to say that it follows, then, that all ABSOLUTE TRUTH will be experienced as beautiful when clearly beheld...

Kris Collins:

however, could it be that there is truth that is DETESTIBLE?

Kris Collins:

by definition

Kris Collins:

so then, maybe God's TRUENESS in and of itself isn't necessarily beautiful

Kris Collins:

ooofta

nontalk:

I kind of don't know what to say about that. because some people might be genuinely repulsed by the fact that 2=2

Kris Collins:

lol

Kris Collins:

true

Kris Collins:

wow

Kris Collins:

well

Kris Collins:

i digress

Kris Collins:

thanks for the chitchat

nontalk:

good conversation though, this might make it onto nontalk.com

Kris Collins:

REALY?

nontalk:

well sure, it was a good one.